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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:55 am 
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Y to the J... I am going to be blunt here. You understand the meta behind this as well as I do. There are no bounds to how bad Jon Snow's play can be. That is obsolete, though. The important point is that we apparently have Night One poison and Night One kill in a "slight BM" game. I am not buying that at all.
Either Desu is scum, or the Master of Aleks is.


No fucking way I'm

1. Going to let Town Brenn meta lose us this game
2. That YOU would bring it up.
3. That YOU would decide to vote based on role / setup meta and not content!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:06 am 
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There is... definitely a place for role meta. It isn't speculating about the nature of roles, or trying to figure out what the Mafia team might do, but... this might not be it either? Like I said, I'm really fucking lost right now. I'm really hating the easy lynches (I could see one of Snow/Ralph being Mafia, but both? Nope. Not given the interactions between everyone) and it seems like everyone is claiming information on someone all of a sudden.

We're getting to the point where it'll be process of elimination, and there are only a handful of options left. :|


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:07 am 
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Jon: After you said about the LYLO? What are you talking about? I claimed to be the reason for pLYLO [at start of the day]. I messaged you 3 minutes before that saying I have been poisoned.

Ralph: my response on what?

Broken Matt wrote:
We have had this discussion of poison. We have had... almost everyone comment in that time. We have had nobody take responsibility for poisoning Deishuu. Now, given that that's where half the day's confusion lies, do you not think a Town player would... y'know, resolve that?
So what are we then led to believe? That Mafia have both a kill and a poison? Or that someone killed Doom Guy overnight and hasn't taken responsibility for that instead?

Why would poisoner claim? It would confirm that I have indeed been poisoned but there isn't any value to it beyond that. Even after the poison is confirmed there lingers the question whether I am scum or town.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:13 am 
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Matt I'll be honest.....this sudden passiveness is EXTREMELY concerning given how you've played all game and jumping off bomb in fear then saying there was no way of knowing....but Tink was scummy!

Asking for poisoner to claim is blatant role fishing

wanting to lynch Town instead of Scum

Soft protecting Jon based on META

##FoS Broken Matt

You're right, process of elimination is creeping up.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:18 am 
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Because this day has been a fucking trainwreck? >_>; (i have.. really not helped with this, have i? :| )

...nope, you're completely right. fucking hell.

/facesmash

Rereading, hopefully I can do something useful before the day's out. :|

Jericho ninja: I.. cannot even dispute most of that. This day has been shite for me. The only one I can dispute is "wanting to lynch Town instead of Scum" because I didn't, I wanted to lynch Kaiki, who was easily the most suspicious person imo at that point.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:22 am 
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Ralph [2]: Yuko Sakaki, Kaiki Deishuu
Jon Snow [2]: ralph, Chris Jericho, ralph
Kaiki Deishuu [0]: Kaiki Deishuu, Jon Snow, Broken Matt
Yuko Sakaki [1]: Kyoko Kirigiri
Chris Jericho [1]: Jon Snow



Day Two begins. 1h and 40 min remain. It takes 5 votes to lynch.
Deadline: Sep 11th 18:00


It is potential LYLO!

If you find anything wrong with the votes please tell me.

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"Those who do not understand true pain can never understand true peace."
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Last edited by masteraleks on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:25 am 
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##vote Jon Snow

Not sure if mod missed it, but not taking chances.

Also upgrading to ##HoS Broken Matt


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:29 am 
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Aleks: you missed Ralph's vote on Yuko earlier D2 viewtopic.php?p=352878#p352878


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:33 am 
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Votes that are not in bold are not counted, as given in the rules.

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Last edited by masteraleks on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:49 am 
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Kaiki wrote:
Well, the cats out of the bag so might as well confirm: yes, I am mason #2, and yes, I have been poisoned. I had it under the wraps in case I might attract at night either doc (with potential heal!) or mafia (I would have died anyway). I am very confident Snow is AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL town as I don't think any scum (unless they were a good actor) would ask the other mason "Why would they give scum poison role.".

Quote:
Jon: By claiming to be the cause of pLYLO, I might have given the mafia idea that I might be a priority target to NK, and if there was potential doc he might also conclude it might be worth it to target me. Also - this is only speculation BTW - if the potential doc's role description would say something along the lines "can also be used to cure target's poisoning", he might add 1 + 1 and suspect I was poisoned and therefore target me. THERE WAS NEVER NEED FOR CLAIMING. ESPECIALLY WITHOUT CONSULTING ME FIRST.


And the chances that mafia would actually think it is killing him that triggers this is? Not much. Going with theorising on potentials being WEAK, SUICIDAL or having a KILLING ROLE is much higher. The chances he would be shot are abysmal and even lower when considering his day 1 play and being one of the four major suspects for this day. The only thing that keeping being poisoned a secret would achieve is lowering the chances that a healer would actually come for him.

1+1 is one thing, but also another way to look at it is: 1+1 = No one claimed poisoned maybe no one got poisoned for a reason X. X potentially being for example non-mafia poisoner that targeted DOOM who then got killed on the same night. If the healer would also be a Doc I see no reason why would they target KAIKI then. (Poisoner doesn't have to be town neither as there could be a serial killer. The flavour Aleks gave us is against it, but it is only flavour and should not taken for a fact.)

All that is if the poison isn't a lie also. Had to look things again based on my own mistakes, but doesn't look like that was necessary. KAIKI's plan is flawed to the core. It sounds like a excuse for not informing of the poison to town. Informing of it would also saved us ton of time and not trainwrecked this day so badly.

For BROKE MATT vs. Y2J for now I'll say this my view on Y2J certanly hasn't improved and I could see him being even in team with Kaiki. If there is something that I have missed and would make this unlikely. For now it looks like he could actually protecting Kaiki by hard pressing for others. Still not sure on which way to go here could still be a false-positive, but I have got a bit more faith on this. One reason being that This:
Quote:
Oriza - More or less town for me for being on the bomb lynch.
Matt - If mafia, we're fucked. Fuck you if you are. >;(
>Yuko - Only thing voting early in possible LYLO is concerning from someone who's been all around solid thus far
>Palazoo I'm feeling more confident than before feeling him town here. Active, very active with well thought out posts. Him and Yuko on the same level here
>>Jon - Kyoko are both null leaning scum still Jon hasn't been saying much at all and Kyoko even less.
>>> Kai- Being really shady and I still don't see how he "confirmed" Doom as town. He lurked a big part of the day and said nothing I really agreed with.
>>>>Ralph - Almost guaranteed scum for me. Completely skipped out on D1, what he DID post D1 was barely more than "I'm here, don't modkill me" And...his latest
Quote:
Ralph's posts are not helping me see him as Alpha Matt's post nailed it on the head and there isn't more I can add. Could he be bad town? Sure but given who we have left with a likely 3 mafia team.....I mean

Jon
Kai
Kyoko
Ralph

3 of these 4 are most likely the team.


He has stated KAIKI as one of the potential for scum team and now he blames MATT for looking at KAIKI lynch instead of JON SNOW . Also I think he hasn't hunted Kaiki at all. Personally I think he tries to keep distance from KAIKI and still protect him; again could be a false positive. Also I could return this here just for the irony of it:

Y2J wrote:
Palazoo accuses me of coming in and out of the thread....but pot calling kettle black here? Your content has definitely been more planned and thought out than mine, but our activity is about the same. In short, I currently have no problems with you other than your suspicions on Matt, who I see is the towniest person here.


HoS: Kaiki Deishuu
FoS: Chris Jericho

Short: I think Kaiki's plan on not telling on the poison is bullshit and if it is bullshit Kaiki is most likely scum.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:53 am 
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Palazzo: Why no vote if you think I am so scummy?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:55 am 
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Alright, no roleplay at all for a bit. It's fun, but not now.

To clarify: I said earlier in Day Two that I was 'taking notes' on interactions. I was trying something that I've never done before, which was keeping a spreadsheet with player interactions throughout the game. Apparently, this style does not work for me at all. It hasn't helped, I've ended up with some really weird connections between players, but it's all irrelevant without information on those players. So until we flip someone as Mafia, I'm going to stop using that and just revert back to my old, familiar play style.

So, thoughts on everyone:

Great Teacher Onizuka - Very active-lurk. Did say they would be lower on activity over these days, though, so... if that's lying Mafia, fuck you, play the game properly. Assuming it's not, their Day One was... not amazing, but not awful. Still fairly active-lurk, but the active posts they had were quite good. Credit for their solid and consistent defence of Doom Guy, which looks good with the flip.
Chris Jericho - ...ugh. So Yuko spoke about being suspicious of Il Palazzo because of HEART. I feel like I'm the same here, although a great deal of that might be reactionary. There's aggressive play and then there's basically telling people to stop talking. With that said, no major suspicions here logically speaking - slightly pro-Town with that with active scum-hunting and pressure, drops some points for railroading a fair bit today.
ralph - ahahaha. WHAT THE FUCK RALPH WHY. So they've made about 6 posts total. Their posts throughout Day Two keep talking about getting a read on someone or having to post more soon, and then it never happens. Lurking (although not [i]active
lurking). Tried to attack me for criticising this earlier because they had issues getting online previously (and didn't tell anyone, but it's worth attacking??) and then STILL DOESN'T POST AFTERWARDS. Yep, really not liking this.
Kyoko Kirigiri - So.. there was a weird point in Day One where they said that Doom seemed like bad Town and then voted him. Disregarding that, however, I actually quite like their content. Day Two, in particular, their posts have been really solid - I approve of them wanting to extend the day (minor as that is, since it's easy Town cred), this post is incredibly strong, looks at everyone in great detail and brings up a lot of points that have not been covered yet. Only minor gripe there is that it's simply +/-, instead of actually judging the level of content. (See: Ralph has 0 for literally nothing.) But yeah, I'm really liking Kirigiri at this stage.
Jon Snow - ugh ugh ugh ugh UGH. See: Doom Guy. Really shitty behaviour, but why the fuck? They have also had some actual content, although fucking hell it needs to be forced out of them. Definitely one of the worst players here, drops a lot of points for that, although I'm not reading it as particularly scummy play still. It's just... shit play. Like Doom Guy was. UGH.
Yuko Sakaki - Really good Day One that leads into a really lurky Day Two. I say really good Day One, Kirigiri brings up some really interesting points that I'd missed here. Their two major posts of the day (here and here) both have major issues: the first is almost pure fluff (half of that post is making a single argument, what the fuck?) that makes it look like really active posting without actually having to say much, while the second post is entirely about Kaiki/Jon's Mason claim, ignoring literally everything else regarding roles, posts, claims... anything. ...Yeah, I'm actually really not liking Yuko right now. Tell-tale active lurking that makes lots of posts that seem thoughtful and in-depth while offering absolutely nothing of interest.
Il Palazzo - Probably the most pro-Town player. Really good content, lots of original content, and also some HEART to go with it. They're coming across as genuinely scum-hunting, reacting well and pushing throughout.
Kaiki Deishuu - I have probably spoken more about Deishuu than anyone else today. I still hate their Day One play, but they've been completely wrapped up in role shenanigans today that I just have absolutely no read at this stage. Abstaining because I'm gonna be biased as hell here.

Overall:

Palazzo > Kirigiri > Onizuka > Jericho > (Deishuu? - unsure) > Ralph > Yuko = Snow.

I think I would be happiest with a Yuko lynch at this point, having re-read Day Two. Active-lurk, terrible content, seems to be riding on good credit from Day One and contributing nothing now. Would prefer this to Snow because I can see Snow being bad Town, but Yuko is evidently good, but still scummy.

ninjas. Putting this out now, will respond to anything relevant there shortly.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:01 am 
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Palazoo I'm seeing Kai town right now because Jon seems SOOOOOO much worse. They could both be mafia, but like I said earlier....we can get to Kai D3 if he's alive or not because it will likely be LYLO again and we'll likely have to mass-claim. If there's a doc, they'll save kai if not and Kai is still alive, we can safely assume he is mafia. Kai claims poison. He'll have a really hard time explaining it D3.

I'm blaming Matt for wanting to lynch a possible town over possible scum based on meta alone instead of the actual content Snow is posting.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:02 am 
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Potential Lylo, leaving room for someone to comment or give a counter-reasoning and the fact that I haven't been the most attentive player on day 2? Could have missed some oblivious points that reason against my view so not wanting to vote straight away is nothing out of ordinary? You yourself proved that I forgot my own damn statement on your first list >_>'


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:04 am 
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Day 2

-1 Great Teacher Onizuka:
- Suggests there are more town killing roles
- Speculating on why Doom was killed (Largely a waste of time in my opinion)
- Shows up to question Ralph on his bad post, but has no other reads?
- Surprised by Kaiki soft-claiming being the reason for LyLo (Which, in my opinion, is correct for her to do so as Matt explained)
- Also claims to be a reason for pLyLo (after being surprised by Kaiki's claim?)

-4 Chris Jericho:
- Also finds Onizuka town for Palazzo's bad reasoning
- Throws general suspicion at myself, Kaiki, and Jon
- Appears with a, less explained opinion of Palazzo being "Others are more suspicious"
- Quick to assume that Yuko, Matt, Onizuka, Palazzo are confirmed town and that the Scum team must be made up of those who are more suspcious as opposed to those playing well? (HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS)
- Suggests Palazzo's mild suspicion is something more with an (as I see it) unusual reaction
- Agrees with ralph that it's odd for Kaiki not to claim earlier (How is it?) and agrees with Matt that Kaiki is a "safe" lynch? (Suspicious attempt to form a wagon methinks)
- Suggests a mafia poisoner? I think not. In a 12-player game even if we only had 2 mafia members, giving scum 2 kills and town multiple killing roles is a beyond imbalanced. Plus it's more role meta speculation that isn't even helpful :/
- In the same post disagress with Matt's idea? (Huh?)

-4 ralph:
- Shows up to complain about Yuko voting in LyLo and proceeds to vote for them (I...can't even.....)
- Claims their vote was a reaction vote (Which is awful!)
- Claims Jon is turning people against each other? How?? More voting in LyLo after saying it's a bad idea???
- Understands being low on Matt's list for low content but apparently it "warrants investigation" (Explanation please?)
- Feels Palazzo/Jericho is town with no explanation
- Thinks Onizuka and I aren't contributing enough (Oh the IRONY)
- Accuses Onizuka of holding out for not claiming something earlier (He said he was surprised by Kaiki's soft claim, why would he have said anything?)
- How would Kaiki claiming poison have helped to prevent a LyLo?

-3 Jon Snow:
- Thinks Kaiki is town for being against the Doom lynch
- Speculating on why Doom was killed (Largely a waste of time in my opinion)
- Votes Kaiki with no explanation beyond "I know you're not the reason"
- Role claims after claiming Kaiki isn't the reason?
- Claims his "I know your not the reason" was because he knew his role. So stating a "fact" before finding out the truth (by I don't know, discussing things with your mason partner first? This is more awful reasoning)

-3 Yuko Sakaki:
- Claims I'm misrepresenting Jericho (even though I pratically quoted him)
- Apparently neutral reads is the same as thinking their town (Wait...what?)
- Again, I'm not the one misrepresenting information. You found Jon suspicious, others found him neutral at best (Ignoring an early read by Doom that revolved around his "plan") which is not the same as seeing Jon as "decent" as you put it (i.e. Town)
- Thinks Jon jumped on the Doom wagon too early? He bloody started it...(MUDSLINGING!)
- Agrees and like Palazzo's use of bad meta
- Dislikes Ralph for his lack of...well, anything

-1 Il Palazzo:
- Uses bad meta to say Onizuka is likely town and Matt is likely scum (This is horrendous reasoning)
- Asks Kaiki to clarify their list, then suggests Mafia could have shot Doom to make Kaiki look town if she's scum (However equally scum could have shot Doom to make people think this if she's town, therefore this is awful WIFOM mudslinging)
- Picks up on what is either bad mudslinging, or a major misunderstanding
- Suspicious of Jericho but not solidly so?
- Calls Jericho out on his reaction/slight mudslinging

+2 Broken Matt:
- "Finishes" his post from the previous day but the statement is irrelevant (Potentially an attempt to appear more town?)
- Active hunting with solid reasoning, no issues here
- More excellent content, brings up the point about one or more of the 'good' players is likely scum
- Suggests lynching someone we think is town just because they're poisoned is "safe" (I kinda understand the logic but disagree with the outcome of it, and after ranting repeatedly about me voting Doom?. Seriously what is with everyone calling people out on things and then proceeding to the EXACT same thing >_>)
- Explains themselves in a somewhat satisfactory manner

0 Kaiki Deishuu:
- Claims to be the reason for pLyLo
- Clairifies their suspicion list
- Dislikes Palazzo for calling her list "measly" and posting a list after? (I'm missing something here. Palazzo's list came before yours and I don't see where he calls your list "measly". Half-assed yes, but not "measly"?)
- Finds Yuko's content quality? (I disagree, see notes above on Yuko and from the previous day as well)
- Finds the "measly list" comment (Aha!) and it's referencing a few opinions on people hardly a list, and somewhat clears up the confusion everyone had around this argument
- Provides (as far as I'm concerned) solid reasoning for not explaining more earlier

Nearly done with catching up, got the last 3? posts to read but this is most of it. Totalling the 'scores' from both days (and again apologies for the commentary approach, but opinions are in there and it might add something that someone has missed) we have:

Most Town

+5 Matt
+2 Kaiki
+0 Palazzo
-3 Jon Snow
-4 Ralph
-5 Onizuka
-6 Jericho
-8 Yuko

Most Scum

That is, a LOT of people doing a LOT of suspicious things. But my vote remains, especially unless we see her reappear (bordering on lurking now)


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